Independence for Scotland?

Scotland mapThis article was prompted by my friend Nicholas, who asked me for some opinions on the astrology of the referendum on Scottish Independence, which is to be voted on by the residents of Scotland on 18th September 2014.  Since I have only been back in Scotland since August, after more than 32 years away from the country, I have a limited perspective and limited information about this rather complicated issue.  I do, however, have a few charts to look at, and I’ve also been listening to the opinions of other Scots that I have talked with since returning.  I should point out that my primary expertise is in natal astrology and helping people understand the spiritual ramifications of their time on planet Earth, but I do like to keep an eye on other branches of astrology, and I do have a particular fascination for mundane astrology, the astrology of countries and nations. So I’m by no means an expert, but am interested in stirring some debate on the issue.  On the surface, this is a simple issue, of whether Scotland should return to its status as an independent sovereign state, that was relinquished when it joined the United Kingdom in May of 1707.  The ramifications of such a move are not fully clear, and are thus subject to all of the usual political machinations and manipulations.

The astrology of the United Kingdom and Scotland is somewhat complex, and there are at least four birth charts to consider.  The Grandfather of all British horoscopes is for the coronation of William The Conqueror in 1066, although this one has minimal bearing on Scotland, as it was long before any union existed.  Unfortunately there are no early horoscopes for Scotland itself, so most astrologers use the 1707 chart, and it is certainly being strongly activated this year.  1707 was not the final say in the formation of the modern United Kingdom, because Ireland joined the union in 1801, the birth date used by many astrologers as the chart of modern Britain.  The most recent adjustment was in 1922, when Southern Ireland split off to become the Republic of Ireland, and Northern Ireland remained as a member of the United Kingdom.  I will be including all the above charts for your perusal, as well as the chart for Alex Salmond, the First Minister of Scotland, and the primary proponent of Scottish Independence.

Great Britain (1707)

It’s not really in the scope of this article to provide a full analysis of the astrology of the referendum, but there are some obvious factors that are worthy of comment.  The first thing that caught my eye is the current transit of Saturn through Scorpio, which places it almost precisely on the Midheaven of the 1707 chart on the day of the referendum.  There is no question that such a transit of Saturn could indicate a change of government and status in the world, but it could also mean a reconsolidation of what already exists.  It might simply be a symbol of the fact that independence, with all of its ramifications, is under consideration.  Other significant transits to the 1707 chart include a close square from Neptune to the chart ruling Saturn, suggesting a “dissolving” of the status quo, Uranus closely squaring the Ascendant, which suggests a “shake-up” of some kind, and Saturn opposing the Sun, which prompts much soul-searching and a quest for a deeper sense of identity.  Together, these transits speak to some kind of shift, suggesting either a break in the union, or perhaps the whole issue of Scottish independence being put to rest.  Even if an outcome is not clear, the astrology shows that the questions are being asked.  Of course, it is entirely possible that the challenges that are indicated in this chart have to do with issues other than independence, but there’s no question that major change is in the air for the British Isles.  I’ll speculate on this a little more once I have revealed the rest of the charts.

I was born in Scotland and spent most of my first 24 years here, and have always been proud to be Scottish, so in that sense there is a certain romantic appeal to independence.  On the other hand, I have always identified with being British as well, and since Scotland has had it’s own government since 1999, the Scots have much more of a say in their political world than they used to.  Full independence would create a lot of uncertainties, from whether Scotland would be allowed to stay in the European Union or would have to reapply for membership, to questions about economics, and whether Scotland would have to have it’s own currency, or even adopt the Euro. There’s also the question of whether a separate Scotland would be financially better off than remaining a part of Great Britain.  I certainly don’t have all the answers (or even many of the questions), but my instincts lean me towards retaining the status quo, because I fail to see a compelling argument for change, except the emotional feel-good concept of independence.

Alex Salmond

I do find it interesting that Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond has so much water in his birth chart, in the sense that his strongest chance for separation may be to launch an emotional appeal, banking on patriotic fervour to win his case.  It is the opinion of the majority of Scots that I have spoken to, that Salmond is a very slippery character, and though clearly very intelligent, he has used tactics that run from subtle misinformation to outright falsehoods, in his desire to sway the public to support his cause.  Having spent the last 32 years of my life living in the USA, Salmond certainly appears to be an American style politician, willing to say whatever it takes to win his political battles.  In early September of 2014, he will experience the final phase of his Saturn Return, suggesting a new beginning, and a time of reaping the rewards/consequences of his actions over the past 29 years.  Interestingly enough, the Midheaven of the 1707 chart is also close to the same degree of Scorpio, which means that not only does Salmond have his Saturn on the Midheaven of the 1707 chart, but both are being currently “lit up” by transiting Saturn, right before and just after the referendum.  By far the most significant transit is the ongoing conjunction of Pluto to Salmond’s Sun, something that only about half of us experience, once in our lifetime.  This transit has been active in his chart for the past couple of years, and though technically past its peak, it will still be very close to an exact alignment on referendum day.  Pluto transits have long been associated with the exposing of hidden secrets, the revealing of hidden agendas, and the punishment of “hubris”.  If it’s true, as many in Scotland believe, that Alex Salmond has been manipulative and deceitful, in pursuit of his political ambitions, then we will probably see his campaign “crash and burn”, but on the other hand, if he really is a man of integrity, then he may take on the added power of being the leader of a newly independent Scotland.

Great Britain (1801)

The chart for January 1 1801, when Ireland joined the UK, is what many astrologers have been using for years to signify modern Britain.  What strikes me the most is the position of the Sun, at 10 degrees of Capricorn, which means that the 1801 chart is getting the same Pluto conjunct Sun transit as Salmond, who was born on December 31.  So there’s no question that the theme of transformation is very much alive in the astrological symbols, and perhaps it suggests that somehow the “Yes Scotland” campaign will prevail, with Scotland rising anew from the ashes of the old UK.  At the time of writing, the polls show only a 30% support for independence, with a much larger majority wanting to maintain the status quo, but perhaps things will swing dramatically over the next few months as the full campaign gets underway.

Northern Ireland

As I mentioned earlier, December of 1922 was the last time that the United Kingdom made a major adjustment, losing Southern Ireland to independence, with the formation of Northern Ireland.  This came about after many years of bloodshed and religious conflict between protestants and catholics, a tension that continued to play out throughout the rest of the 20th century.  The most interesting thing astrologically is that when Northern Ireland was created, Pluto was in an exact opposition alignment with the Sun in the 1801 chart, the very chart that represented Ireland joining the United Kingdom in the first place.  Clearly Pluto brought things to a head back then, and now in 2014 we find Pluto exactly opposite its 1922 position, once again aligned with the Sun in the 1801 chart, as the future of the United Kingdom is decided.

 England (1066)

There is a final chart to reveal, the one for December 25 1066, when William the Conqueror was crowned King of England at Westminster Abbey.  This is not a chart that is often used for Scotland, but it is a significant date in the history of the British Isles, and by a quirk of destiny, it has the same exact Sun position as the 1801 chart.  This of course means that Pluto is currently conjuncting the Sun in both British charts (and closely moving up on the Capricorn Ascendant in the 1707 chart), clearly revealing that something big is waiting to happen.  Since it seems that Scottish independence is a long-shot, at least from the current polling, perhaps these major transits are referring to something else altogether.  Given the age of the current Queen, this could be the time that her long reign comes to an end, through her death or abdication.  It is also possible that the Pluto transits will uncover a scandal that strikes to the heart of the British establishment.  For the past couple of years there has been a slowly unfolding story involving sexual child abuse by various celebrities (including DJ Jimmy Savile) over a 40 year period, which is rumoured to involve senior members of the British government (particularly during the Thatcher years), the BBC, and even the royal family, so perhaps this will prove to be part of the momentous changes that lay in store for the UK.

Scottish Flag

I hope that this blog stimulates some ideas and opinions from some of my readers.  I don’t pretend to know how all of this will play out, but am fascinated by astrology’s ability to track current events and changes in our world.  Please add your thoughts and comments and any analysis that might help further illuminate this topic.

32 Responses to Independence for Scotland?

  1. Nancy January 26, 2014 at 3:41 am #

    Wow–what an analysis! I’d been wondering about the machinations of Scotland’s independence… actually I thought the vote had already happened and wondered why we had not gotten any news flashes on Internet…. But I see they are going to be thrashing it over for a few more months! I am going to have to come back and read more, as it’s a lot to take in.
    I do know your talent in mundane astrology–remember when you predicted for the Sedona newspaper that Obama would win that first election…. I don’t remember the part about the negatives that have manifested! We sure got fooled.
    Keep up the good work!!

    • Gavin January 26, 2014 at 10:48 am #

      Thanks Nancy. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out over the next few months. As you can imagine the rhetoric is flowing from both sides and it’s difficult to get a sense of where the truth really lies with regard to the consequences of choosing independence.

  2. annie April 3, 2014 at 1:09 am #

    “difficult to get a sense of where the truth really lies…” Well, you could start by being a touch more ‘objective’ in your opinions about our First Minister 😉 Maybe get out a bit more and interact with a few more Yes’s – they’re only 5 points behind the No’s, so quite a few of them about!

    Thank you for the chart drawings. Very interesting :-)

    • Gavin April 3, 2014 at 12:17 pm #

      Thanks for your comments Annie. I can’t say I’ve changed my opinions much in the few months since I wrote the article, though there’s certainly a lot of political manoeuvring going on on both sides of the issue, and do I have an inherent distrust of politicians and their ability to be truthful. Though I do agree that Scotland needs to get a fairer deal from Westminster, I am not convinced that Independence will be in the best interests of the Scottish people, though it does of course appeal to our national pride. Nationalism, in general, is another thing that I am extremely wary of, because it can be such a divisive force, and I’d rather find ways to work together than be divided. Perhaps independence will be a fantastic thing and perhaps we’ll be better off maintaining the status quo, but ultimately it’s in the hands of Scottish residents to choose, and hopefully both sides will embrace the outcome. If the vote is a “No’ I hope that Scotland is able to negotiate a better deal with the UK parliament and if the vote is a “Yes” it will at the very least be interesting to see how the political rhetoric plays out in the real world. Either way, God bless Scotland!

  3. annie April 3, 2014 at 2:42 pm #

    Thank you for the reply & ‘your’ opinion :-) However, I think you have been influenced by Westminster & MSM propaganda (most Yes’s are ‘social democrats’ not ‘nationalists’) I should also point out that the SNP are the Scottish ‘National’ Party not Scottish ‘Nationalist’ Party… there is a difference. But like you say, it’s up to the Scottish people to decide and either way, Goddess bless Scotia 😉


    An INTERnationalist X

  4. ????? June 6, 2014 at 7:10 pm #

    How interesting. The Grand Cross catches of the UK too. Russia is already felt.

  5. Morelle July 14, 2014 at 6:14 pm #

    Hi Gavin, This Pluto prevalence is very interesting. There will be transformation and rebirth, for sure. Remember when Pluto moved into Capricorn? The solid structures of banking etc started to fall apart. But they didn’t all die. Restructuring? Yes, to some extent, but perhaps more deeply and importantly, a little just a little, more uncovering of their opaque ways and a little – maybe more – regret, and a resolve to seriously adjust the moral compass. So whatever happens, more secrets coming out, and so, a cleanup and change.
    A possibility is more devolution, including of the regions of England, as the more northern regions have their own definitive differences and sense of identity. I agree with you that I would rather all worked together to achieve goals that, for most people I’m sure, throughout Britain, are similar – more say over our own lives. There’s too much in my opinion, ‘government’ in general. I wish they would confine themselves, to good administration and serve the people of the country, however ‘country’ is defined. I wish I could remember the chart that Vi used to use for Scotland – was it 1009, when Malcolm Canmore became first king of Scotland? We really should ask her about that chart and what she thinks.
    Well done for all the work you’ve put in.

  6. Rosa September 6, 2014 at 10:50 pm #

    How about Catalonia? Are we going to gain independence on N-9? Could you post an astrological reading please?

    • Gavin September 10, 2014 at 10:30 am #

      Sorry, but I know nothing at all about Catalonia or it’s bid for independence.

  7. Chris September 10, 2014 at 5:17 pm #

    I’m reading this on 10 September 14 as the whole affair has reached boiling point – very interesting and competent analysis Gavin, thanks for the charts and pointers. Fascinating stuff isn’t it?

    • Gavin September 10, 2014 at 5:34 pm #

      Yes Chris, I must admit it’s a lot closer than I had originally anticipated.

  8. Jose Peroumal September 11, 2014 at 4:03 am #

    Comments on Scottish Referendum

    Using the January 1 1801 U.K. Chart, I am inclined to agree that the influence of transiting Pluto over the radical sun has indeed been the underlying astrological power throughout the slow processes leading up to the referendum. Therefore adhering to Pluto’s traditional meaning of disintegration and reformation it looks that a Yes vote is more likely, though the official split will not occur until later, coinciding with the transit of Uranus in fiery Aries, which is closing up on a square aspect to the natal Sun.

    Furthermore, the transit of Saturn in 2nd House in a T-square to its radical position and natal Venus is a sign of a restrictive phase in the material affairs and shared resources of the kingdom which is bound to cause deep heartache, if I may say. Also of relevance is the position of transiting sun and moon affecting the natal Uranus by an applying conjunction and a sextile respectively, thus stirring a projected ambience for democratic change on the night of the result.

    Supporting the foregoing, the planetary transits upon Alex Salmond chart are in my view very promising.

    • Gavin September 11, 2014 at 10:26 pm #

      Thanks for your comments Jose. The clock is ticking and the pressure is building as we get close to the wire. Now that I’ve seen the 1005 Scotland chart with Sun at 10 degrees Aries, along with the tightening of the polls, it does look like the upset might occur. Check out Anne’s article in her post for her analysis of the 1005 chart.

  9. Anne Whitaker September 11, 2014 at 9:16 pm #

    Hello Gavin

    I heard about you from my blog friend Joyce Mason who speaks very highly of you as her astrology teacher, so I am interested to find out that you have returned to Scotland. I’ve stumbled on your blog from following a search link on my own site. I’ve written an analysis of Scotland’s chart some time ago, and just posted this piece, recently published in the UK’s Astrological Association journal, which might interest you since it has a different, more collective ‘take’ on what’s happening in Scotland. Thanks for all this detailed analysis, which I’ll return to when I have some time to read it in more detail over the weekend.

    • Gavin September 11, 2014 at 10:20 pm #

      Hello Anne,

      thanks for your response. I had a quick look at your article and feel much the same way as your analysis. I’ve been following the ongoing Uranus/Pluto for the past few years and wrote a bunch of articles right before and during the Arab Spring, before I got my blog up and running on astropotential. Currently Pluto is also opposite the USA Sun (for the july 4 1776 chart), and I’ve been expecting big changes over there too. It’s interesting how one or other end of the Pluto/Uranus square is hitting the Sun in so many of the UK charts, which suggests profound changes affecting the entire union. I am delighted to see a copy of the 1005 chart and amazed by the position of the Sun! Ever since I returned in August of last year I have been expecting the No vote to prevail, but now it looks very possible that it will be a Yes after all. Either way we can expect Scotland and the UK to make major changes and realignments, and perhaps if the vote is No then other parts of the UK will want to change their relationship to Westminster as well. I’m still a bit nervous about full Independence, but hopeful that Scotland will at the very least have more autonomy even if it remains in the union.

  10. Marco Vespucci September 13, 2014 at 7:03 pm #

    I like to look at as many factors as possible (like all the charts listed here), but have found that keeping it simple is often the best when doing certain types of complex analysis. In short, merely looking at the chart of certain “leader(s)” tells you a lot, whether it be the soccer coaches of opposing world cup teams, or the head of a political parties whose future is decided by a vote. The question is always the same: How do they feel around the moment when the event comes to a definite conclusion? In terms of the Independence Vote, the answer may be difficult to ascertain because the exact time when the result will be announced is unclear.

    While progressions and outer planet transits may be useful (especially in trying to ascertain long lasting psychological changes), it’s usually the inner planets–in simple yes/no type of situations–that are so informative because they reveal the immediate, and personal reaction to a deciding event. Said differently, even if far more is at stake (archetypally speaking or in terms of the total number of people affected), in the end, the clearest way to determine how things will go is to merely look at how (using my previous examples) a coach’s or party leader’s ego (which is based on likes/dislikes, preferences, expectations) fairs at the moment of critical event. Are the ego’s preferences confirmed (which results in generally happy feelings) or deflated (evidenced by sad or depressed feelings), either of which can be pretty accurately ascertained from the angular relationships of especially transiting Sun, Moon, Mercury and Venus to the natal chart. I have found the Moon and Venus to invariably be of particular importance in these cases, and secondarily Mercury and the Sun.

    The farther out the transiting or progressed planets I consider, the more multivalent and differential prognostications become. Outside planets can have widely different manifestations (like Pluto transits ushering in a restructuring either through power manipulations, or willingly giving up power, or stubbornly holding on to power, or coming into ones power, or a combo of these possibilities, etc.). In contrast, the inner planets simply reveal if a particular outcome makes one happy, or unhappy. Based on which it is, we can surmise the nature of what will transpire.

    The only time this becomes complicated is when the ego’s attitude towards an event is ambivalent, or a person is blessed with sufficient serenity that either outcome is tolerated about equally well. Since most of us are not yet so detached from critical outcomes, a sure bet is to check how the inner plants are doing. Another prognostication problem with this approach arises when one is not able to fix the exact time of the deciding event.

    So then, what about the outcome of the referendum? In terms of being able to read it from Salmond’s chart, it depends on when exactly a definite answer to the referendum will be known. From what I gather, voting booths will close at 10pm, unless there are long lines that necessitate keeping them open longer. An official answer will supposedly not be forthcoming until the morning hours (“breakfast”) of the 19th. That having been said, a clear answer could emerge early from (if they are held) exit polls. There is also the possibility that Salmond may have some kind of insider info that allows him to know ahead of others what is transpiring. The problem here is that we cannot be sure when exactly the outcome will be known to him.

    With that in mind, we can say that up until about 9pm, the transiting moon in Salmond’s chart is brilliantly located in Cancer, in his first house, and setting off the grand trine it is connected to. It would seem that Salmond: (1) knows he has already won (by way of prior opinion, or even exit, polls), feels vindicated and is deliriously happy, (2) is having a great time riding the expectation of a victory, or (3) he is in his own little world of self-deluded happiness. Thereafter, things begin to change. The approximate midnight square of transiting Moon to his natal Neptune is a disappointing awakening, signaling a sudden doubt about the outcome, or a sobering after anticipatory euphoria gives way to the facts on the ground. Could it be that the last polls close at midnight? Finally, in the morning hours of the 19th, he will still have the transiting Sun in a good position (the afterglow, or a confirmation of victory?) and the Moon in Leo in the 1st house (a regal, proud bearing), but things increasingly turn challenging and negative because other transiting planets (namely Venus and Mercury) start to move into challenging, difficult relationships to other planets. This could be because things have unexpectedly gotten complicated due to a recount becoming necessary, a downright loss, or dealing with the outcome of a victory, which could unleash some immediately complications.

    To further contextualize what has been written here, one should look up the charts of Salmon’s nemeses, like David Cameron. The day before the referendum, Cameron’s ego is convulsing (does the polling already indicate a clear loss, or is he just getting paranoid?) and then on the 19th, Cameron has some mixed transits: Mars trine Moon/Jupiter and Moon conjunct Jupiter/Moon, Moon conjunct natal Moon in Leo and then Moon squaring Mercury in Scorpio, plus Venus in orb of conjunction to Pluto in the 12th (the ending of a cycle). The fact that the Moon transits begin well seems to support his ego structure and sounds good (Moon in Leo conjunct Jupiter in Leo, followed by a monthly lunar return in his natal chart), but we must not overlook the fact that this same transit sets off the natal Moon/Jupiter in Leo conjunction that squares Mercury in Scorpio (10/11 to 2nd house). Cameron is either magnanimous in defeat (doable for a Libra), enters into some state of egoic denial and bravado (possible with his mars in Leo), or is offensive, maybe even overbearing and pompous in victory (mars and moon in Leo). Whatever it is, on the 19th, things end on a sour note for him as indicated by the moon squaring mercury. There is also the transiting venus conjunct natal pluto transit that is operative at this time. Cameron must let go of something, or help others do so through graciously supporting them in some empathic manner.

    Going a step further, we can say that on the 1st and 2nd day after the referendum, Salmond is less mentally and emotionally challenged by circumstances than Cameron. Is this because Salmond has come to terms with a defeat, or because he is basking in the glory of a victory? I suspect it is because he got what he wanted.

    Postscript: It has been pointed out that Pluto and Uranus continue to be active in Britain’s chart until 2015. I would suggest that this may be the case because the Scottish divestiture (i.e. decisions about the fate of the North Sea Oil, shared Gold Reserves, Banking institutions, etc.) will have to be finalized by then.

    • Gavin September 13, 2014 at 7:12 pm #

      Thanks for your comments and analysis Marco.

  11. Jane September 17, 2014 at 9:22 am #

    What’s your take on the grand square occurring at midnight on the eighteenth–Moon, Mercury, Pluto, Uranus–with AC conjunct moon in Cancer, Pluto conjunct DC in Capricorn and Neptune conjunct MC in Pisces?

    • Gavin September 18, 2014 at 8:07 pm #

      Jane, I would consider it more significant if midnight on 17th/18th was an important moment in this process, but even if it was tonight it would be 2 hours after the polls closed and as much as 6 or 7 hours before the results will be announced. In other words it’s certainly a valid Grand Square, but perhaps not only significant to the referendum vote. On the other hand, the fact that Pluto is essentially stationary at the moment and making a 1 degree square to the 1005 Scotland chart’s Sun, as well as making major aspects to several of the national charts, suggests that this is a significant part of the process of restructuring the entire United Kingdom, which will happen whether the referendum vote is Yes or No. Yes supporters can at the very least take comfort in the fact that their campaign has brought about major change in the Union, even if Scotland may remain a part of it. In the bigger picture the ongoing Pluto/Uranus square is serving to give voice to the people of our planet who are fed up with globalisation, the overbearing power and corruption of the banks, and the fact that their political leaders are beholden to masters that do not serve the interests of the people. From the Arab Spring, to Occupy Wall Street, to Scotland’s bid for independence, there is an ever-growing appetite for something fundamental to change in the way this planet is run.

      • Jane September 19, 2014 at 9:40 am #

        Thanks for your answer. It is a transient Grand Square, but as you say, the Pluto/Uranus square remains. However, I thought yesterday’s concession to the Ukrainian rebels added an interesting nod to the Grand Square, although I doubt anything has been resolved. The Pluto/Uranus square may be giving voice to many oppressed people, but we are not seeing any resolution to their problems. That shouldn’t prove to be the case within the U.K. where our problems are minimal compared to the Middle East conflicts and the African horror of Ebola: the list is endless. My hope is that all those involved in decision making whether here or in the many devastated areas of the world find a way through.

        • Gavin September 19, 2014 at 10:16 am #

          Pluto is doing his job to expose the corruption and ugliness and “hubris”, and Uranus to destroy some of it, but no doubt it will be left to some of their other cohorts, particularly Saturn, to do the work to change the status quo and build something better. I truly hope that years down the road we will look back on the Pluto/Uranus years as being a significant turning-point for humanity and our world. Thanks for your insights Jane!

  12. Marco Vespucci September 17, 2014 at 5:42 pm #

    Some additional thoughts.

    The Scotts have a fabulously tortured history: back-stabbing those who would free them of the joke; the big fish collaborating with the overlords for small fiefdoms and some semblance of power, then some rethinking it and doing the right thing at greater loses than if they had just stood their ground with honor and conviction; then, joining with the abuser … and; now caving into threats, bullying and the fear of not being able to continue sucking on the teet of Westminster. We must be dealing with a case of Stockholm syndrome here. About half have it right: they have self-respect and are willing to part with ill company. The other half apparently have been bred into submission, or some variation thereof. The cowardice and fault of humanity is seen here in stark, glaring proportions. History is not kind to those with small hearts.

    The question that arises is … what are the major astrological significators of the characteristics mentioned above, and can they be overcome?

    Astrologically we can see: deception, loss of identity and pride, co-dependent/enabling behavior, disillusionment and disappointment: neptune square mercury, venus, sun — and — mars squaring saturn: a masochistic tendency … all of it linked to the 6, 12 and 9th houses: understanding (or not understanding) the nature of how things are connected.

    Uranus and Pluto activated all of this and instigated for a referendum. Tomorrow we’ll see whether or not the influence of these two planets was sufficient to disrupt, alter, transform and catapult Scottish collective identity to a different level.

    • Gavin September 18, 2014 at 8:11 pm #

      Marco, I’m not sure that I agree with your interpretation of Scottish history or your rather scathing opinions of Scottish character, but thanks for taking the time to express your ideas. :)

      • Marco Vespucci September 18, 2014 at 10:00 pm #

        Hello Gavin, I think we would missing the mark to reach for conclusions about the Scottish character, as a whole or in general, from what I wrote.

        First, critical comments were directed at those who historically deserve them (that would be certain nobles of the past), which would not include those Scotts who behaved honorable, of which there were countless many. So, there is no generalization at play here. It would take a long time to get into why the Union was first entered into, but it wasn’t for completely kosher reasons (and I believe this is generally known), so I will forgo elaborating on that point, except to say, the common man didn’t have much of a say in that. With regard to this day in history and those voting “no”, many are well-intented, and many more just plain co-opted over the last 300 years (economically, identity-wise, in terms of prevailing social paradigms, etc). I think that is difficult to argue with, but regardless of one’s thoughts about this, there is no generalization here either about the overall character of Scotts. Moreover, I made it clear that the faults on display here are ones that are not solely unique to certain deceased and/or living Scotts, but “humanity” at large. Finally … I backed up my assertions by giving the astrological factors that oh-so clearly speak to the historical and identity heartaches that are so plainly visible (challenging Neptune and Saturn aspects to inner planets).

        I hope this allays your concerns and helps you understand that my comments were not a broadside on Scotts. =) In fact, many voting “yes” seek independence for reasons–in one way or another–connected to what I have written and would, therefore, not feel maligned by what I wrote.

        Thank you for allowing me to express my opinions and clarify my point of view!!! Not everybody out there is so broadminded, tolerant and willing to engage in conversation, especially when taking offense to what they read.

        • Gavin September 19, 2014 at 10:10 am #

          OK, that makes more sense now that you’ve explained a bit more. Which challenging Neptune and Saturn aspects were you referring to, or more to the point which chart were you referring to? Perhaps you mean the Saturn square Mars, and Neptune square Sun/Venus in the 1005 chart?

  13. Marco Vespucci September 18, 2014 at 7:06 pm #

    Augmenting my analysis above, if we add Alistair Darling’s chart into the mix (along with Salmond and Cameron), we have somebody who is clearly having a very bad time now and over the next few days. Coincidence, or evidence for the fact that the “Yes” will pull it off?

    • Marco Vespucci September 19, 2014 at 11:00 am #

      yes, the mars square saturn and neptune square mercury, sun and venus are a real doozey, humdinger, dandy, etc.

      To repeat from previous posts:

      (1) “astrologically we can see: deception, loss of identity and pride, co-dependent/enabling behavior, disillusionment and disappointment: neptune square mercury, venus, sun.”


      “mars squaring saturn: a masochistic tendency … all of it linked to the 6, 12 and 9th houses: understanding (or not understanding) the nature of how things are connected”

      (2) fear — “Mars in Aries–asserting a new identity–squaring Saturn in Cancer in the 12th–homeostasis due to fear of the unknown and possible loss of security.”

  14. Marco Vespucci September 19, 2014 at 10:48 am #

    In the end, what turns out to have been the clearest indicator of how things would go was the Queen’s chart (the one and only real “sovereign here–not Salmond, Darling, nor Cameron), which shows strong signs of ego confirmation (i.e. everything in the “kingdom being peachy keen) at this time.

    But there is another thing one must mention here.

    With regard to clues Scotland’s natal chart (and current transits to it may or may not contain), we should take note of the fact that all natal charts reveal the basic tendency of a person or entity and that these are often really difficult to change and overcome (in this case, hard Neptunian aspects are notoriously difficult to overcome). It sometimes requires significant collective astrological forces to overcome the gradient along which things naturally flow (the slope of which is always indicated by the natal chart itself). Despite Pluto and Uranus having pressed the issue here, the forces that were necessary to alter the flow of things were obviously not in evidence. Fear (Mars in Aries–asserting a new identity–squaring Saturn in Cancer in the 12th–homeostasis due to fear of the unknown and possible loss of security) won out in this case. Obviously, there wasn’t supposed to be the kind of bottoming out that is sometimes able to affect change and a new beginning (the kind that, for example, forces even the most committed alcoholic to go into rehab). Perhaps more pain is required to make that happen. Then again, sometimes the person or entity in question just isn’t destined to make such a change; instead, it is destined to just crash and burn.

    • Gavin September 19, 2014 at 11:13 pm #

      Marco, I’m not sure that fear is the dominant factor here. Lets not forget that historically Scottish warriors were among the most feared of all and hardly fit the negative Mars/Saturn stereotype, but instead show more of what I’ll call wild courageousness and stubborn (even sometimes foolhardy) determination. As far as the election is concerned I see this aspect as demonstrating great prudence and cautiousness on the part of the majority of Scots voters in the face of an independence campaign lacking in clarity and well-reasoned arguments. Originally there was a plan to have another alternative on the ballot, called Devolution Max, which was shelved when the rules were set up. As the Yes vote gained ground in the polls, the other British politicians made strong assurances of major devolution of powers to the Scottish Government, which appears to have swayed large numbers of voters towards a No vote. I believe that had Devo-Max been on the ballot it would have probably won outright. In the end I believe we have the best of both worlds, and I salute Salmond’s campaign for creating the environment for changes that seem far more suitable than jumping off a cliff into uncertainty and the dissolution of the union. Of course it remains to be seen whether Westminster will follow through on its promises, but in the circumstance of such a high turnout of voters it will be hard, if not impossible, for them to back down from their pledge. In the end, I believe that Salmond and his campaign were brought down by hubris and deceptive politics. Pluto is the rewarder of integrity and the destroyer of the false, and ultimately Salmond strayed too close to the edge and got his wings burned as Pluto stationed on his Sun. Not that deception was his alone, for both the Yes and the No campaigns, like most modern political operations, had their share of it, but it was after all Salmond’s baby and his dream. If I had been asked to advise him astrologically I would have told him that scrupulous honesty and integrity were his only paths to success, and that any deceptive campaigning would be his undoing. So the deception that you mention in reference to the Neptune aspects (and Neptune’s transit opposite the Scottish Moon) is definitely in evidence, but, in my view, the majority of the Scottish people saw through the nice pretty package that they were being sold, and said “not this time”. Incidentally I also associate the strong natal Neptune aspects with the tremendous cultural history of Scotland, from the arts and music to a deep spirituality that has always been a strong part of Scottish culture. Neptune may square the Sun, Venus and Mercury, challenging the Scots to raise their spiritual vibration and to always look a gift horse in the mouth, but lets not forget the close trine to the Moon which gives a rather easier access to the Neptunian vibration. I also noticed the Mercury/Uranus conjunction, and the fact that Scotland has historically had more than its fair share of inventors. It seems to me that you see the Scots as losers in this referendum, and as I have obviously shown, I see them as winners, and that definitely lends a different perspective to the planetary aspects and transits. I also can’t help but notice that in the early days of the campaign Neptune was exactly opposite the Moon and Uranus conjunct the Sun, creating a dream of freedom for the people, but in the end it was Pluto stationing 1 degree away from the Sun, and realistic Saturn conjuncting the natal Pluto that brought things back to earth. Hopefully the majority of the country will now align behind the devolution plans, and heal some of the wounds that have been opened. And in the long-term, perhaps somewhere down the road someone else will present a better plan for independence, or maybe by then the UK will be operating at a more functional level and there will be less need for separation.

  15. Irena Thomson September 20, 2014 at 12:02 am #

    Dear Gavin, I have really enjoyed reading your blog and astrological insights and agree that hubris and deception were the undoing of the yes campaign. However , it was a triumph for the democratic process and hopefully catalist for change in the UK and showed to the full the admirable qualities of the Scots, as well as their pain at past grievances. You do not mention Chiron which I read somewhere was a powerful aspect in the Scottish chart and current sotuation and wonder what your opinion is.

    • Gavin September 20, 2014 at 6:52 pm #

      Thanks for your comments Irena. I just checked, and Chiron is not particularly featured in the 1005 chart, except for a 2 degree opposition with Pluto. It’s currently at 14 Pisces, which means it’s not making significant transits to the chart either. It may well be more prominent natally or by transit in some of the other charts under consideration, but to be honest I don’t use Chiron in natal charts that much, except funnily enough, in Astrocartography maps. I’d love to hear any insights that you have to shed on the matter though! :)

  16. Jose Peroumal September 21, 2014 at 5:27 am #

    Wish to thank you for the knowledge based astrological blog on the referendum. Looking back at the 1801 U.K. chart, the trine aspect of natal Sun to the natal Mars in solid, materialistic Taurus, ruler of the 7th house of partnership was an overlooked positive factor prevailing over the potential of a divorce posed by the Pluto’s transit on the referendum day. However, since the square of transiting Uranus in 7th house being still operative, we should expect some form of radical changes coming from Westminster soon concerning the all union, as pledged by the U.K. prime minister . In this respect, the outgoing Scottish prime minister, though defeated on the occasion carries with him some degree of success for his emancipated cause at his departure.

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